Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. You should NOT be looking to get more money to stay in a job you don't like. Two years ago I realized that the MS treadmill (trying to become what my dysfunctional manager wanted) was making me nuts. Director can be applied to L65 or L66. The larger the team I work on the more I am bombarded with meetings and brown bags so someone can attempt to become the expert on design patterns, code coverage, or feature X. I think getting promoted elsewhere is not as tough as getting promoted in CTS-GTSC. Now a VP at a small cap (and growing, yes in this economy) company. I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. The people around you can help with that. Second, the perspective of a different team helps you generalize about best practices and what works and doesn't work. You're in competition with everyone else in your org in your CSP. I suspect the former because there's no point in a manager telling you that you got promoted when you didn't. Managers plan out promotion timeframes far in advance. Maybe." Grammar nitpicking is fine when it's accurate. Jobs are leveled, not people - make sure the job you have includes the scope needed for the level you want. The news is in. Your Recently Promoted L63 Peers: let's say you have at least one peer that in the past year or so has been promoted to L63. And we have the budget for it. I came in at 58 (9) and having been through a) I wish I had gone through b). That's the easy way out. Levels.fyi gives different levels for Microsoft v amazon depending on pm or dev. "Sad but true. Experienced sales manager with skills in strategy, lead of direct reports, developing sales forecasts, products pricing and launching new products to the marketplace.<br>Proven abilities to manage key account relationships and large-scale projects.<br>Experienced in presenting to executive senior management, meeting with customers at CxO level and coordinating salesmen's Activities.<br><br . Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Can somebody from HR confirm this?If true then this post is quite untimely. But people who move often grow faster because of two things (in my opinion.) Once you identify those things scream about it by sending email with problem and solution and offer leadership to eliminate that imperfection. Who cut and paste buggy shit all over the codebase and don't know some of the things that a good L62 should know. That is the guy to beat. Is that a req. Never "threaten" to leave or waive external offers in my face unless you're fully prepared to be escorted out of the building that minute. We've negotiated thousands of offers and regularly achieve $30k+ (sometimes $300k+) increases. If he thought you were trouble already, though, telling him you are thinking about leaving is like asking for a ticket out of there.7. But if you think you should be promoted and your manager doesn't, you shouldn't sit and seethe -- you must understand what it will take. Great post. It would be the pinnacle of dumbness. Join the Levels.fyi community to chat with employees at Microsoft and other tech companies. You can wait 24 months to gain all the credibilty & visibilty & trust again that needs to intersect precisely with your new leaderships ability to argue you on the stack proficiently. It's a struggle even to get a solid Level 59 promoted to 60 because of budget and under-levelling of devs in 60-61 range. Chris Capossela. Needless to say that not many will admit this fact. To the guy you said:I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. What to do?The remaining is either a) absorb into other org (say A)b) if A doesn't need testers, then VP will instruct them to find another position in 6 weeks. The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle. YES, there are people who are awful at all three and still succeed. Yet, I know that a friend just got one. The estimated total pay for a Senior Director at Microsoft is $500,742 per year. And as my experience shows, many teams do not even staff a senior. One, we bill customers higher for higher levels and we call everyone 'highly experienced' or even an 'architect'. Think Locally: remember three years back when we talked about the book Corporate Confidential? The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. In fact, every boss I've had has told me that I was the most frustrating employee they've ever had, mostly because I ignore half the things they ask me to doAnyhow, here's my advice: do a good job.That's it. And in my experience they are *eager* to get your skills and your lower level payroll expense! I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). Its nice to see constructive advice and stories from everyone.I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. In the case of the latter, make sure you have the goods, because your manager now must show his/her hand on whether s/he values you. It's a knife fight to 63. I have seen and known many of my own peers who don't get promoted because of potential but the number of people you know in the leadership team. In MCS, soft skills are often more important than hard skills since you work with customers (often angry ones), sales (often under pressure and looking for someone to blame). I know there is always new hope that comes with new leadership, but there is also a restart too. Sometimes leaving MS is good. I saw several far more technically skilled people in the group who deserved this that were passed over. If you're off-path, you can turn it around. I agree with some comments that level make no difference. Stop fighting which is where mapped. Entry level (428) Associate (378) Mid-Senior level (3,385) Director (2,581) Done . I have had 3 positions in the past 8 years and best advise i can give is NETWORKING. In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. on this one. Last August (different group), I received a dreaded "Limited II", in spite of my manager telling me that he didn't actually think I was in the "bottom 10" at Microsoft, but that the devil made him do it (so to speak) and that it was a "no-brainer" for him. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. Going from Level 62 to Level 63 is more about EQ than IQ. . In my org the cut is 70% on promos. For those impatient folks who want to move up every 18 months, watch out. If you are level 64 and above, your relationship with your GM or VP or above.2) Your visibility to the GM or VP. Don't spend so much time worrying about the next notch on the ladder: your goal should be to learn new things, to get something cool done and to find things to do that are fun for you.2. One of my august colleges uses the analogy of a trapeze artist. The reason: there are a number of factors of success that are common at all levels (see #6 and #7 below). Regarding the comment about the ability to own a room - This is a very good self-calibration technique. Absolutely not Definitely yes 3 1 David Lean Worked at Microsoft (company) (1990-2009) Upvoted by Jack Schofield , Computer journalist who has covered Microsoft for 35 years. One could easily sack 4000 heads at HQ and R&D nor revenue would take a hit. We had a strategic plan for getting me the visibility with the higher-ups that I needed.My promotion to Level 65 during the last annual review period was clearly the hardest. Candidates with evidence of effective teaching will be given preference. I guess they are fallible humans too. As for my own history, successful strategies have followed 3 major buckets:From 59 --> 62 (I started as a 10 in the old system) I simply kicked ass and took no prisoners. Senior Director, Head of Data Sciences VMware Aug 2014 - Jul 20217 years Bengaluru Area, India Global Leader and Head of Data Sciences Lead Data scientist teams across Bangalore, Bulgaria, Palo. The higher you go, the longer it takes. Candidates should have a Ph.D. in Physics and a strong commitment to undergraduate education. If you think of it as "How can I do better than my manager?" There is only one item in this list: visibility. Browse all Microsoft salaries . They can be wrong about exactly what these flaws are, but they aren't wrong that you are flawed. Of course everyone wants to be promoted every review, so don't bother asking right after your last promotion.What matters most is that you are doing what your manager thinks deserves to get you promoted. Then perhaps you're stuck at L62. That sounded like a complete crock to me. Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. I breezed to L63 and shortly after to L64 within a year. Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. That is, its hard to define, but I know it when I see it. These turtles gets promoted eventually just based on time spent at MS and because they werent doing anything wrong even though they dont really meet CSP criteria. Thanks M$Underpay. Worked my ass off and finally get recognized as Snr contributor. Many 62s (and 63s) make substantially more than 64s. 3. Email@ elliereinker@gmail.com | Call@ 330-554-0249. >Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length.I hope HR gets cut. Similarly, the best predictor of your success at the next level is your success at the current level! First, they are moving *to* something that they think fits them better -- and bringing an enthusiasm for the new position to go with the better fit. more often than not it is up to the employee to use the resources, show maturity and commonsense and move up62 -> 63 is difficult and there is a reason behind it. However, I think this is the first point where we see a non-trivial number of folks plateau. But they don't have the same visibility that your manager has in your specific org. Got lucky on that one!!!! Thank goodness for this blog, where MS employees are free to talk about their personal struggles, unlike "other" blogs that censor/prohibit such discussions, so that they can live in some fantasy land and avoid dealing with the real issues. Without soft skills, you can't make 64 and certainly no chance at 65.I've seen many people transfer into MCS, level up, and then transfer out basically using it as a boost. Technical excellence alone will not generate success.Authority. SQL is one of the groups that has consistently delivered quality and growth. Granted, you have to live in the greater NYC area, but it's a great place to be. The CSPs are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSPs and saying I do that, and that, , but Im not getting promoted is almost certainly missing the point. My work affected hundreds of developers in our org. senior director - $446k . There's a reason why they had the kind of brand loyalty that Microsoft can only dream of.Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. I might be still employed by Microsoft if I knew he wasnt doing it willingly.One thing I would do different if I could do it again is to not advance levels any faster than I have to. There are tons of Principles and L64s anyone can immediately recall who are not doing anything above or beyond their immediate teams. Its difficult to transfer to a new position because at a high level, what group is going to take you on to a new position you have no experience in. then the follow-up is: after what accomplishments and around when? Yet, when you have 2 or 3 offers at the end of very hard interview loops, which one are you going to choose: the team that listens to HR or the team that listens to the market? Avoid long-winded multi-point e-mails, boil down your points as succinctly and efficiently as possible. Your own work is part of the goal. Alternately, you can increase the scope of your own job and justify an increased level.So the only real question is, what do you need to do differently at the higher level? I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. They have commitments to grow their employees. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. I think it's safe to say that I "own" the group of people under L63 in my group, but I usually take that as an opportunity for mentorship as opposed to an opportunity to poach someone else's cool project. In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. Excuses and griping and bemoaning aren't the stuff that L63 contributors are made of. Do you think I can find a way to do almost as well and stay here, in this job I enjoy?" I'm hiring 6 good MSFT developer/consultants. then you're really off in the weeds.Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. Good luck with that. It's not easy. * One final important thought that hasn't been mentioned here and that is very dear to my heart is one that is not only specific to 63 but also to 65+, 66+, and 67+, and it is about moving up when you are a female at MSFT. Its usually comes down to do it and be unhappy or leave. The skip level is totally nonchalant to her ways. Even if you don't leave, make no mistake, I'll be building a backfill slate for your role just in case. Saturday, November 15, 2008. I started in 2001 @ L62. If you want to succeed at Microsoft (or anywhere else where you have a boss), the most important thing you can do is figure out exactly what your management wants from you and then make sure you deliver it in spades.Junior people often make the mistake of thinking this means "I will do my job to the best of my ability" and then they go off and work really REALLY hard at things their management doesn't find nearly as important as they do and so come review time these folks are *shocked* to hear that all of their blood, sweat and tears did not make the impression they'd hoped. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. The skills are different, and part of the failure of this company is exactly due to losing star individual contributors that become mediocre leads, in all disciplines. . Your level is essentially recognition of your circle of influence or radius of your contribution. We need to grow out of this bad legacy syndrome that we still have. Are all management titles and the name used to call then in different orgs can change. It took him at least two months to integrate. If youre working individually there is an upper limit on how much you can accomplish since there are only 24 hours in a day some of which must be devoted to eating, sleeping, and other bodily functions. You have the right stuff to succeed and Microsoft is very happy with you. Would they give you the level if you were not already a Microsoft employee? Finally, take heart and dont become too discouraged if this is taking a little longer than it seems like it should. Seriously, your GM or VP owns the decision to do transparent titling. How bad is this? Any idea on when is this going to change? You have to strive to get the KEY to the boss's heart and brain. That's not going to change in six months (which I learned). And how do you represent yourself as a leader and influencer when you are in a room with 6 other people vying for the exact same thing? I dont know why this is the case. -- Business Transformation Executive with demonstrated experience in managing and implementing large transformation programs through all levels of the organization in order to build growth, grab new market opportunities or reduce costs.<br><br>- Building on Solid experience in Functional roles (Sales, Marketing, Delivery Operations) to drive those programs <br>- Sales Oriented Business . If you want to advance and you are not a "favorite underling", your first and most important job is this: figure out how to become a "favorite underling". Answer to second question is never ever explicitly try to make yourself known to hierarchy above your manager. How about a thread on the current hiring/moving freeze, or on surviving the New Ice Age? To anonymous who has spent 3.5 years in role at MS. You're already blacklisted. Once they successfully cross the chasm theyll start over on the typical S-shaped learning curve at the new level again. Any suggestions on how to focus on this. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. "Now that the Annual review is approaching"You're probably too late already. In response to Kelly Calvert:Regarding..Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. If you have a good manager he/she will ensure the relevant peers know all about it. 1. New shiny brain up and working now. I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. IBM got their position by focusing on the customer. It's not enough that you do a good job for your own assignments beyond L62 but what matters is how many others you enable to do as good job as you can do and achieve similar outcomes by influencing them. Please help. Incompetent people tend to significantly overstate their performance, and significantly understate that of their co-workers. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. The downside to this view within the Microsoft culture is that you are always expected to keep climbing the ladder even if you are content with your current job and a solid performer in it. Absolutely. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. That clarity may not always result in a promotion on the exact timeline you envision but if you're honest with yourself and have a good manager it really helps.I'm a 13 year Microsoft employee who lived through the bad old days of crappy managers. Given all that, the two things that are key to promotion are:1) Your relationship with your skip level manager. And to your skip level. This is obviously difficult to manage. I basically just hoped that hard work would get me ahead. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. Any tips will be greatly helpful. Mgmt, MSFT levels: CEO > VP > Partner(Director) > Principal > Sr. Eng > Eng 2 > Eng 1. Otherwise, you start getting limited reviews and your compensation goes down.Obviously there was no advice in this post, but I thought it was an interesting observation, and perhaps the company can learn something from this viewpoint. It is a dream company for many people. I don't yet have any insight into what it might take to become a Partner, so I won't comment on that. The first was the barter (a position exists that I qualify for - give it to me now and I will commit to staying with the team another year. Why are we doing x and not y? then do you know what more you need to do? This is a discussion to foster debate and by no means an enactment of policy-violation. You havent seen nothing yet. Impossible. If it doesn't, what could you add to make that work? It's hard for L63. Ugh, not good, not good at all.>Finance is cutting 10% of work force. Former is work of many years and long nights and proven track record while later is basically your ability to bullshit through 6 interviews. If so, then you're going to have a hard time finding senior IC spots anywhere. What I've learned is be very, very specific on your commits and accountabilites. How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? I got involved in features up front, by spending time getting to know the PM team. Being irreplaceble is bad because you spend more times on coding/fixing bugs and there is less time to work on your visibility. If so I wish them good luck - as oppose to the US, these regions have laborlaws which makes it very hard for a company with Microsofts margin to lay people off. These are sole individual personal points-of-view and the posts and comments by the participants in no way represent the official point-of-view of Microsoft or any other organization. "a HR manager" is acceptable if HR is meant to convey a spoken "a human resources manager" rather than a spoken "an aich arr manager".haven't should have an apostrophe, yes. Flip on the klaxons! :). My first year I thought for sure I would sit at L61 for another year, but to my surprise I was promoted to L62 without even a full FY under my belt. The second was threat (I have a serious offer outside the company that I am taking). All of my peers are SDE II's, so L61-L62.The advice is simple:First, NAIL the fundamentals. you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. She partners very closely with colleagues to develop and drive the people strategy across the UK GEO. Discussion: First off, I'm going to be hard-core about comments here. I have actively helped people leave MS who were topped out at level at MS but who wanted to do something else. I know we have had some huge improvements in the last few years in that regard, but we are really still way far behind, and I as a male employee, I know that very well, and I have seen many instances of female super stars de-emphasized in favor of a less-achieving, less-talented male team member. If youre not doing a great job at your current level youre not even going to be considered for the next level. Sad but true Mini et al addressed this with the descriptions of the distinguishing traits you need to develop and demonstrate. Strategy and Product Leader for an omni-channel team encompassing blended physical-digital experiences that combine personalized services with customer relationship strengthening across 400- centers. After that, I was given a team that was in trouble quality wise 6 months before shipping. Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. This is a good list. Benefits can add thousands of dollars to your offer. Specifically, that is a tendency to try and do everything themselves, taking too much individual accountability as opposed to building a v-team across orgs etc etc.Most managers in Microsoft - in my personal experieince - are competent managers. Help make it more accurate by, Get started with your Free Employer Profile, average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, The Ultimate Job Interview Preparation Guide. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the Standard Title of the position. Bottom line: Dont be shy of asking for promotions during internal transfers.
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