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The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. Read more. ), intended use will give you all the answers. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. D2 steel Cookie Notice There is a powder form, CPM-D2, and PSF27 is also very chemically similar. We should be suspicious of anyone who is claiming very high edge retention with a steel at low hardness and a small amount of carbide. Anthony Sculimbrene authors the blog EverydayCommentary.com. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. The material increase machinability and strength. Keeping in mind that I have a well rounded Set of sharpening skills. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. In the context of a knife this would be chipped edges or broken knives. A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. I also added a few more steels in this study. Many knife enthusiasts are concerned with categorizing steels as excellent, good, poor, etc. Its hard to imagine a more rust-inducing environment than saltwater and fish guts. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. Coarse-carbide tool steel grades. And steels with at least 10% chromium are probably stainless, except for several important exceptions like D2 and ZDP-189. I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. I guess that was before I started reading. These steels favor edge retention over all else. Its tough, but thats about it. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. What about K390? Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. Get for a complete guide about other steel; you can read 14c28n vs 8cr13mov reviews. You can see that 64 Rc AEB-L has both lower toughness and edge retention than 61 Rc MagnaCut, so I feel that in general you get a better sense of where the steels fit with a single point. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. -> Maybe prequenched 14c28n could be a little tougher than AEB-L? Because of its difficulty in sharpening and machining, its very rarely used and comes with a high price premium. Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. Is that accurate? If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. Available in Kershaw knives (as of 2012) and in other . But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. 14C28N Vs D2 . In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. This is one of the better steels on the market. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? 14C28N. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. Which knife for best? I was struggling to simplify all the Rockwell/Youngs Modulus stuff for readers when I came across your site. Though the volume of carbonitrides in the steel is relatively high. But to learn more about these and other attributes, read our related outdoor knife buyers guide. The performance of these blades are equally admirable. Its very corrosion-resistant and quite tough. D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. Furthermore, because of its ultrahigh hardness, Maxamet is very prone to corrosion, probably worse than 1095. Your email address will not be published. D2 holds it for longer. Cronidur 30 It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. Each steel was tested with a knife that was produced just for the test, and then sharpened the same way for each test (15 dps 400 grit CBN sharpening). Start comparing steels. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. Top quality steel yields perfect toughness, edge retention, wear and corrosion resistance, an easy to sharpen, long lasting and durable everyday carry that will fast become a user favorite. 52100 It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. I see very little about cryo outside of journal articles, and I wonder which knifemakers use it. It shows 3 stainless steels from 750-800tcc but the edge retention graph only has 1 SS in that range, S90v. This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. I like it in the Seki City Spydercos, but I would like to know what ratings you would give it. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. Toughness is a measure of how much resistance a steel has to fracturing. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. With conventional steels this limited vanadium additions to about 4-5%, and this was greatly expanded when powder metallurgy was developed. Let's compare 14c28n steel with other steels, and for this, I use four criteria; Edge Retention, Corrosion resistance, Ease of Sharpness, and Toughness and on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) let's see the performance of each steel. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. Dr. Thomas you spoke of using a different media for cutting test and I have some extra veg tan leather and was wondering what are the parameters of the leather you need? But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. SUS410 Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. Custom maker Brian Trudeau uses Nitro V, and Massdrops Perpetua design is the first production knife to sport it. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. LC200N is produced with a special technique to add high nitrogen, giving steel excellent corrosion resistance on the top! 14C28N steel is known to offer the highest toughness levels out there. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. Your email address will not be published. I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. CPM 10V It also improves edge retention and strength. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. There is an acceptable range for every element so this doesnt mean that 1084 will always have exactly 0.84% carbon. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. S35VN Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. The steel comes with increased wear and abrasion resistance properties. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. So youre right that a D2 blade will cut more CATRA cards than an AEB-L blade *when theyre both sharpened to the same angle* but AEB-L has much better toughness and can therefore handle being sharpened to a more acute angle without chipping, and a more acute angle is more important to continuing cutting ability than wear resistance is. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in metallurgy terms. Been here before? Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. These images are taken from my book Knife Engineering. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. Tougher than D2, but less wear-resistant. If thats true why do you include it in the stainless steel category? Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ What is pulling that line high and to the right? Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. How long sharpen? High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, read an article I wrote on budget steels here, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/, https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/, The Pros And Cons Of Stainless Steel Copper And Aluminum Brewing Equipment SanctuaryBrewCo, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/. Carpenter produces this powder steel. One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. Most steels use carbon to increase hardness, but 14C28N uses nitrogen, boosting hardness without the normal penalty of increased corrosion. I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. On the other hand the professional performing blade steels sharpen to a razor edge and hold the edge for an extended use. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. XHP is an exceptionally well-balanced steel with excellent all-around attributes. 1.4116 got a 2.5 for toughness and edge retention where as 420HC got a 9 for toughness and a 2.5 for edge retention. Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. While quite soft, the metal cuts even when it seems dull because, at the microscopic level, it has a roughness that performs much like a serration. Austenitizing is the process where the steel is heated to high temperature prior to quenching (rapid cooling) to harden the steel. 1. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. Its an anomaly in the knife world and quite puzzling to use. Must-Have Bowie Knives for Your Collection, What is Micarta and What Makes It a Great Knife Handle, Top 8 Reasons Why Knives Make the Best Gifts, Pocket Clips: Carry Safely and Comfortably, Make a Knife Your Own with Accessories & Customization. But yes, I would assume that the general performance would still be relatively similar between them without evidence to the contrary. However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. If I made some plane irons from AEB-L at 63 Rc (where its still tougher than 1095 at 59-60 Rc, the standard vintage steel in plane irons), could I drop my sharpening angle from 30-35 to 25? Thats a little too far, but you get the point.). For example, increasing edge retention from Z-Tuff to 3V (100 mm in the CATRA test) led to a drop in over 10 ft-lbs, a similar drop is seen by going from 3V to CPM-CruWear. M390 It boasts an incredible ability to continue cutting long after it seems dull. And its not made of steel. I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. D2 steel knives, on the other hand, offer great edge retention and wear resistance, which are properties of tool steels.14C28ND2Toughness93.5Edge retention35Corrosion resistance8.54.5Ease of sharpeningEasyModerately Hard14C28N vs D2. You need a hard medium to sharpen it like diamond or boride. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. 2. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. 14C28N A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. It applies to both of course, hence why there isnt a separate label. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. As a side note, pure tungsten carbide blades (from brands like Sandrin) can have very high levels of edge retention, but they are not made of steel. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. Quite an eyeopener! A new steel from Crucible, SPY27 launched in 2020 in the Spyderco Native 5and Para 3. 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. The knives can be used in humid and wet environments without rusting. They tend to be relatively expensive and difficult to sharpen, as they have high wear resistance. Are you okay with that? Notice that with the same edges on the same media, the 9Cr18Mov from Real Steel performs about as well as the average Chinese D2. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. For more information see our.