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All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. You couldnt ask questions. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. . The Glock fails on both counts. Companies stay silent 01:10. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. I agree. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. brakes, remember? I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? three changes to the original design. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Zero in the affirmative. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. There were a lot of changes. Weird how that might happen. They didnt have to, but did. They are being replaced with Glocks. He probably had a double until it was over. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. 3. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? Yaaay! The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. (It wasnt my gun). abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Seems a bit apologetic to me. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Im more of a DS9 guy. Dude, your story is THREE years old. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . JTF-2 is the only unit in. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Look a fanboy. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Theyre the only product that is not. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Because its flat out bull**it. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. No picture for me. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Thats deflecting from the real issue. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. Either the gun is defective or its not. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. As they should. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. How about something more relevant. These officers are not gunfighters. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. Too Many Accidents I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Is it? Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Thats SIGs term for a recall. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Good job! Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. And thats just my opinion. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. congrats. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Excellent work. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. But that's not working in the P320, he said. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer