Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. AP2 irons are forged and can be bent with no problem, BUT I would recommend taking them to someone who does this for a living. I know its different for each golfer depending on their individual characteristics but do you have rough numbers (for iron set) to be looking for in terms of launch angle, spin rate etc. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? St Louis, MO. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Newer irons, however, are designed with a loft angle that is between 18 and 22 degrees. Sign up to receive product offers and news! Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. It, In any case one can't really compare clubs anymore with respect to asking what someone hit. Bending irons 2 degrees stronger gopher99 May 9, 2021 May 9, 2021 Thread starter #1 G gopher99 Active member Joined Mar 15, 2019 Messages 233 Hi, i need some info from the more knowledgeable people on here than myself, I would like to bend my mizuno 921 forged irons 2 degrees stronger to fit in with the gapping on my wedges. You must log in or register to reply here. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28, Didn't think of that. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. Copyright 2023 Mitchell Golf Equipment Company. Having spent a lot of his childhood in Hawaii and now on a course that will reward his best asset, Grant can justify this snippet from a recent interview: Fortunately for me, I grew up in the wind.. More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. Whether you can still hit the ball in the air and make good contact is dependent on your swing. A wind-affected island track that offers rewards for aggression. What to consider when bending golf clubs. Restore formatting, I did this to reduce the spin rate. Good luck! I do not disagree with you on the long irons Drew, we have hybrids to replace those. TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 Tiger Woods plays his irons in weaker lofts and he doesnt seem to have any distance issues! Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. That is only if the area you are going to contact the ball moves up on the face as a result of bending, the lower portion of the face will move backwards when bent strong. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. Best of luck.Chuck. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. One good example comes to mind. Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. JavaScript is disabled. The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. I already have a udi 2i and am too cheap to buy a 1i to replace it. Its like that distance is just not filled. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. PING Anser 4 Hybrid Keep the loft the same and take an extra club for the shot. Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. IG: golfer_scott The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. Being a golf club designer and marketer, I certainly know that there are gains to be made in your efficiency by availing yourself of the right modern equipment. Thanks! SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" You may have heard golfers talk about how they need to use a flatter club or that they need to change their lie angle. The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. Pasted as rich text. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. Nick is a Certified Performance Club Fitter at Carl's Golfland in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. By The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. If the added ball speed of modern irons is not enough to achieve an ideal landing angle, I have to add loft. I can't say that they have kicked my 716 ap2 out for good, but for now the 716 cb are staying in the bag! If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. IG: golfer_scott When you start messing around with the hozzels and stress on clubs you need to know what you are doing. It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique. It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. Check out the different lie angles of a standard 8 iron from these three companies: I know that the difference between these angles doesnt seem like much. It is very easy to do these modifications, and also recommended by a lot of folks to have your set checked either frequently or at the end of each year in case any changes happened during the season from general play. TM TP UDi #3, MC 4-7, MB 8-P w/ Tour V S+ I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". Then if your wedge gaps are off you might tweak them a degree. Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. It can be re-bent without any adverse effect on it. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. My advice would be to start by making sure the lofts are set to manufacturers specs. Military. You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. It wasn't so much the distance I was concerned with but that I hit it a bit too high with a normal swing and it caused some issues on windy days. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. "If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. Lets assume that the launch angle with a modern-lofted set of irons is ideal. I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. Privacy Policy I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. *Performance average removes all outliers good and bad, to give a distance based on how far a well struck shot will go. :-). Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour. So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. Paste as plain text instead, TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. My old callway x forged dug more than my bent mp-4's. It just depends. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert Great answer Blake. Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. You can post now and register later. Another point regarding GI/SGI clubs that I would love to see a fitter touch on is shaft length. All rights reserved. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. Now I learned to shape the flight high and low at any given moment. Still have questions? Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. This feels like an anyone week the back-nine on Sunday could be fun. Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Each player is different and because of this each iron plays different for each player. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 I think it depends on the player and his swing. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. And here is why. I know for people with slower swing speeds these crazy lofted, ultimate SGI irons are perfect. Everyone tries to boast yardage, not consistency and accuracy. My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). Its taking up to 2 degrees off each iron. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. It would increase if you added loft. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? In my experience I have seen guys in the 8-14 handicap range with moderate ball speed try X Hot irons, and see much better results with the Rocketbladez. Your email address will not be published. There you can see exactly what it takes to be an average amateur golfer. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. About time someone who knows what theyre talking about said what the the real deal is with loft and modern clubs. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me. I'm fascinated by your basis for changing the lofts? You cannot paste images directly. What if I get those numbers with a 7-iron, or a 5-iron? Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. I was wondering if bending my irons 1 to 2 degrees strong at a golf shop will change the playability of the 712 AP2s. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. All rights reserved. If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. Odyssey 2-ball Pro-Type milled face putter. 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. I've never had a sand wedge bent. i realize the distance and ball flight. Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. Upload or insert images from URL. Will I be digging too much? I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. You must log in or register to reply here. Product Instructions & Manuals This also gives me room for more wedges. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the club by 1.6* based on the average length club.. In turn creating around 12 more yds. I suspect Ill be waiting a very long time, Amen, finally some one with great insight. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. Distance is fine, but I have an overly high flight in the wind. I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. PING Forged wedges I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. Bottom line: bending 2* strong may or may not cause issues. Mizuno irons can be adjusted to varying degrees depending on model and material type. Hope I did not complicate this any and maybe helped you, Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*--- Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. You cannot paste images directly. My 54 wedge has 12 of bounce and the divots I take with it are just a big as all the rest. I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. The refit yielded a super driving iron. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. United States. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver Well gee, I guess if you cant get a 7 iron in the air, you really do need some help haha. You can easily bend the lofts and lies to be progressively consistent from one club to the next with zero tolerance. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. TM TP UDi #1 w/ Diamana If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. Your previous content has been restored. Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. FAQs Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. A lot of mixing and matching Callaway MD 2 58 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. Your link has been automatically embedded. The so-called "standard" lie angles are 9 iron at 64* with a spacing of 1 deg between clubs. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little. Say you start with a classic blade 7 iron with 40* static loft by how much could you reduce the loft in conjunction with a GI head design without launching the ball lower? Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. By Greyson P. I just purchase a great used 712 AP2 set. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. Display as a link instead, Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. Here is a quick list of scenarios that might mean that you need to use a flatter lie angle in your clubs: On the flip side, here is a list of situations that might require you to get a more upright lie angle: The best way to get your loft and lie adjusted is by a professional club fitter. My name is Justin and I am a PGA Golf Professional. Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. It has been working really well for me. I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue.